Thu Jan 23 10:10:01 1997 PST
Logging is turned on by Claud.
Thu Jan 23 10:40:44 1997 PST
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Mick to get it back to the right orbit.
Mick teleports in.
salman_guest teleports in.
Claud waves to salman
Claud says, "scuse me a sec..."
Claud teleports out.
acidburn_guest teleports in.
Thu Jan 23 10:51:52 1997 PST
>From tiny digital packets of information, Claud reassembles before your eyes.
salman_guest says, "Hi Claud"
acidburn_guest waves to Claud and salman
Jupiter_Guest teleports in.
salman_guest waves back to acidburn
Claud settles down to sit comfortably on a floating asteroid chunk
mike_d_guest goes up.
mike_d_guest has arrived.
Thu Jan 23 11:04:32 1997 PST
Saturn_Guest teleports in.
student_guest teleports in.
student_guest goes down.
student_guest has arrived.
student_guest goes up.
Claud waves to saturn and student
student_guest has arrived.
FuNHoG_guest teleports in.
Animatronic_Hiro teleports in.
Animatronic_Hiro waves.
Claud smiles and waves to funhog
Claud waves to anima
Backdraft_guest teleports in.
Animatronic_Hiro says, "Just call me Hiro..."
Thu Jan 23 11:14:38 1997 PST
tired_guest teleports in.
tired_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove tired_guest.
Sloppy teleports in.
Sloppy jumps.
Sloppy hits Animatronic_Hiro.
Sloppy punches Animatronic_Hiro.
Animatronic_Hiro exclaims, "Hey!"
Sloppy .s flail around wildly for a couple of seconds, chanting and banging his bongos. Finally he get a grip on himself and sits on the ground, smoking.
Sloppy jumps.
Sloppy goes down.
Thu Jan 23 11:24:57 1997 PST
acidburn_guest pokes Claud
TommyBoy_guest teleports in.
acidburn_guest says, "hello"
Dave_guest teleports in.
Claud wakes up at acidburn's poke--hey!
Animatronic_Hiro exclaims, "Hiya!"
Claud welcomes the techpros
Dave_guest finally recovers from the effects of its beer.
Backdraft_guest says, "Hi Claud"
Claud says, "hello backdraft. welcome to io"
Mick waves
Claud notes that dave discovered the bar before entering the moon.
Mick says, "Claud, we had a good f2f discussion to start"
Phantom_guest teleports in.
buford_guest teleports in.
batman_guest teleports in.
Starre_guest teleports in.
TommyBoy_guest says, """
Claud nods to mick
Mick says, "basically, the 18 men in class seem to think this is all politically correct hoo-ha"
buford_guest says, "hi, y'all"
TommyBoy_guest says, "Hello"
Claud nods and continues to listen
Backdraft_guest asks, "Claud, Whats your view on gender fair language?"
sandyet_guest teleports in.
Starre_guest ponders "hoo-ha"
FuNHoG_guest [:[waves]
Claud asks Mick, "do you have any female students in the class?"
student_guest says, "there's a difference between PC and gender-fair language"
Raistlin_guest teleports in.
Starre_guest says, "hi San"
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "Claus, Mick is talking right now, but the answer is yes!"
bob_guest says, ""What's the difference""
student_guest says, "GFL => gender fair language"
FuNHoG_guest says, "this is really wierd'"
Mick says, "we have one female in the f2f classroom"
Claud says to Backdraft_guest, "my view is that we've all gotten comfortable with very different language patterns. sometimes we forget that some are OFFENSIVE"
Starre_guest agrees with student
batman_guest says, "im here"im here"
student_guest says, " the difference is that PC is done for no rational purpose; GFL is done to improve communication"
editor_guest teleports in.
FuNHoG_guest says, "what do you mean by offensive""
Claud nods to student
Starre_guest says, "Lang. can be quite offensive when some sits down and look at it"
Mick thinks the point seemed to be that if everyone understands what eveyone else means, nothing else matters
TommyBoy_guest says, """With gender Fair Lan"
FuNHoG_guest says, "thatcan be different to different people"
Phantom_guest says, "PC is done for all minorites, not just those of gender"
Claud says to FuNHoG_guest, "if someone feels badly about him/herself after hearing/reading my words, i've offended."
buford_guest says, "PC only seems to take place in the outside would for me...it doesn't seem to exist between friends, or in a social group."
TommyBoy_guest says, "With GFL, you start to generalize and lose focus of your audience"
Claud nods to phantom
sandyet_guest admits that "mankind" seems awfully exclusive. i'm not a man of any kind, am i?
FuNHoG_guest says, "but how do you know where the line is drawn in the sand""
Backdraft_guest says, "I have aquestion, how many people have actually come to you pissed off about your use of gender unfair language"
Starre_guest asks, "I am not male, why should I be referred to as such???"
Claud nods to tommyboy--it's all about discourse communities, then?
batman_guest says, "women take things to seriously"
Claud asks Backdraft_guest, "come to me? as in confronted me?"
Mick says to Backdraft_guest, "I've had articles nnot published for that reason."
buford_guest agrees with batman
Damon_guest teleports in.
<Max>_guest teleports in.
Claud eyes batman warily
bob_guest says, "to Claud " dont you think people are too easily offended???""
FuNHoG_guest says, "i agree backdraft"
Backdraft_guest asks, "Sure, or even e-mailed you?"
Phantom_guest asks batman_guest, "what if men had to deal with being called female???"
Claud says to bob_guest, "some are. but we have to look at ourselves before we blame them."
Saturn_Guest says, """"waht, wa"woman son't take things seriously like what you saidf""
+---------------------------------------------+
Claud holds up a big sign: | I have a slide--hang on a sec |
+---------------------------------------------+
batman_guest says, "im going to start clling women wo to make them happy"
<Max>_guest "this gender fair language stuff is going too far"
Saturn_Guest says, " Well, I odn't pick on the gender fair issue""
sickly_guest teleports in.
<gun>_guest teleports in.
FuNHoG_guest says, "i guess its not just women, some people are more sensitive than others"
********* Claud: slide 1 on Kairos-slider *********
Woman Girl Lady Chick Dame Broad Wench Female Babe Gal

Which terms do you use regularly?

About whom?

Which words do you use for your mom? Your girlfriend?

Do you use the same words when they can hear you?
********* End *********
Phantom_guest asks, "What is wrong with ebing sensitive about what one is called?"
TommyBoy_guest agrees with batman
Mick says, "yer such a troublemaker, Claud"
Claud snickers at mick
sandyet_guest has been called a wench.
FuNHoG_guest says, "yeah but its a joke and they know it""
buford_guest says, "for the most part, women seem to be for easily offended by such stuff...although tolerance depends from person to person."
editor_guest says, "the language shoul never hurt any body, whther they are female or male"
sandyet_guest says to FuNHoG_guest, "okay you son of a bitch jerk."
Joker_guest teleports in.
Claud asks FuNHoG_guest, "what's a joke?"
sandyet_guest exclaims, "only kidding!"
sandyet_guest asks, "how'd that feel?"
Starre_guest says, "its so easy to insult a feamle- because there are so many more "bad" words that are femal"
batman_guest says, ""batman is on the prowl for gender fair criminals"
Claud asks buford_guest, "why do you think that is? why are women's "terms" more offensive than men's?"
Mick notes that "son of a bitch" even is directly referring to a female --t he mother of the offended party
Claud nods to mick (and his mother)
FuNHoG_guest says, "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me""
Saturn_Guest says, "Well exactly""
buford_guest asks, "THIS ONE IS FOR ANY OF THE FEMALES HERE - what do you propose instead of mankind?"
TommyBoy_guest says, " Everbybody, feMALE, woMAN, "
Claud hurls a stone at funhog
Saturn_Guest says, "why do all those bad words refer to women""
Phantom_guest asks, "Wait how often have words hurt you??? Remember being a kid?"
<Max>_guest "mankind if fine with me"
FuNHoG_guest says, "ouch""
buford_guest defends FuNHoG's poetic license
Claud asks <Max>_guest, "what's wrong with humankind?"
student_guest says, "Yeah, but some men have to learn not to be offended, with names like Dick..."
sandyet_guest says, "humanity works"
FuNHoG_guest says, "thanks buford""
Thu Jan 23 11:35:03 1997 PST
Claud says to FuNHoG_guest, "those were just words, weren't they? (stones)"
buford_guest says, "no prob, FuNHoG..."
<Max>_guest "mankind is already part of our language"
Joker_guest says, "here here"
TommyBoy_guest says, "we need another word for the opposite sex, "
Starre_guest asks buford_guest, "How bout genkind? a combination of gender and kind?"
Saturn_Guest says, "I didn't like the bad words about women even when I was little""
bob_guest says, "to sandyet "you mean huMANity""
Claud asks student_guest, "the question is, who invests language with it's meanings, then?"
<Max>_guest says, "I can't k:"I can't keep up with all of this shit""
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "How do you speak with a langauge already written for MEN!!!"
sandyet_guest asks, "so is nigger. so we shouldn't chan ge a word just because it already exists?"
buford_guest says, "huMANity includes the nasty 3-letter word, though..."
Saturn_Guest says, "Why do all good words refer to men anyway?""
<gun>_guest "no need to use the N word"
Claud wonders if sandyet would care to elaborate on that.
FuNHoG_guest says, "seriously though, no matter how much we start correcting things, there will always be new things that come up that will need to be changed""
<Max>_guest "you can't take and rip apart every word that has the name man in it, only those that actually mean male"
Claud asks FuNHoG_guest, "but where do the problems COME FROM? Who decides which terms degrade?"
Phantom_guest asks, "shouldn't we have a lang. that doesn't insult more than 50% of the population?"
sickly_guest says, "in a book I read recently _Woman on the Edge of Time_ an enlightened society inthe future uses the word "per" instead of "him" or "her""
sandyet_guest says, "Well someone said mankind wa already part of the language. What a dumb argument. Words change all the time, and fall out of use. Offensive words. Exclusionary words."
student_guest asks, "There's nothing wrong with the word 'man,' if that's what you mean. What do you think Thomas Jefferson meant by 'all men are created equal...'?"
<Max>_guest "all of the words refer to men becasue we are dominant and powerful, just kidding but that is how it used to be"
Claud would like a copy of that, sickly
Saturn_Guest says, " I agree that picking on too much about hgender fair is impossible""
Saturn_Guest says, " ther is no way to cure""
editor_guest asks, " why people use ' she or he ' instead of 'she or he'?"
Mick says to student_guest, ""Jefferson meant free, rich, white landowners, actually"
Joker_guest teleports out.
editor_guest says, " I think people never use gender fair language "
Saturn_Guest says, " I don't use gender fair lang even I am female""
Phantom_guest says, "I use gender-fair when ever possible- hate to insult my mother"
TommyBoy_guest says, "It's this simple, if you don't know who you're writing to use GFL, if you do know, be specific and avoid anonymity"
student_guest asks, "Anybody know the linguistic roots of 'man'?"
batman_guest says, "the only thing that comes out of gender fair issues is that it gives woMEN something else to bitch at men about"
Claud applauds tommyboy for a good start
buford_guest asks, "Just a question...if i cheat with a married female, am i a MISTERess instead of a MIStress???"
Mick humms that. so being offesnive is okay as longa s you know your audience agrees with the idea?
FuNHoG_guest says, "exactly your audience determines whether or not you need to use it""
Phantom_guest asks TommyBoy_guest, "How often to you write to a group that is just one sex?"
TommyBoy_guest Thank you, Thank you
<Max>_guest "all I mean by having mankind already be part of the argument is that everyone knows what it mean"
Claud says, "knowing your audience is important as a FIRST STEP"
<gun>_guest " who does everybody suppose will win the superbowl on Sunday"
Claud asks, "but what about CHANGING YOUR OWN MIND?"
FuNHoG_guest says, "what's the next step?""
Backdraft_guest says, "laugh with" to batman_guest"
sandyet_guest says, "EXACTLY. I know what it mweans. MANkind. Race dominated by males. Thank you for making my point."
<Max>_guest "Green Bay better win the super bowl because I hate the Pats"
Claud points to previous comment, funhog
batman_guest says, "the patriots will win or my name isnt BATMAN"
<Max>_guest "guess what BATMAN I just renamed you FATMAN"
Claud so what do you think of using the word "GAL" to describe someone?
buford_guest says, "you mean BATPERSON, right? remember to be PC..."
Mick is just so surprised that a class 18/19ths male is talking football.
<gun>_guest "go have another snicker's bar batman"
TommyBoy_guest says, "If I was a chairman, and all the others on the board were men, I would address them as chairmen. If a woman was part of the board, the rules change--chairpersons."
Backdraft_guest says, "Hey Batman, you couldn'y be more correct"
Starre_guest laught at micks comment
Claud throws long to mick
batman_guest says, "thank you backdraft"
Mick says to Claud, "i only play basketball, sorry."
Phantom_guest says, "How bout just Chair? Most people in the bussiness understand what that means"
buford_guest intercepts claud, runs it back for a TD
FuNHoG_guest says, "mick fumbles after the reception""
Claud asks TommyBoy_guest, "what's wrong with calling them Jim and Sue and Nedra?"
Joker_guest teleports in.
Mick .oO(Nedra?)
sickly_guest says to TommyBoy_guest, ""why not just say "chair"? that avoids the gender stuff altogether"
Claud growls at buford and mick
Claud says to Mick, "Jim & Sue are ANGLO names"
<Max>_guest "lets get back to business, what is gener fair, you can never truley be with our language"
batman_guest says, "you dont stand a chance againt me joker"
Saturn_Guest says, " I agree, chair or chairperson""
Joker_guest says, "FIRE"
Chad_guest teleports in.
FuNHoG_guest says, "love those firetrucks!""
TommyBoy_guest says, "I'd be offended being called just chair, i've worked hard for my status to be chairmen. Face it, Man means power...not because i say so, because history defines it"
Claud asks Mick, "why stop at GFL? What's wrong with FL???"
Mick notes that at RPI, which has 27% foreign enrollment, it's not always obvious whether a name is male or female to those of us used to Western names
Backdraft_guest asks, "Why do you think people say FIREMEN instead of FIREPERSON?"
Saturn_Guest says, " could you just be called chairperson?""
batman_guest says, "so Joker what do you think about all this gender fair nonsense"
Phantom_guest asks TommyBoy_guest, "not always- what about Queen Elizabeth? Or Hatisaput?"
Claud says to Backdraft_guest, "fireFIGHTER"
sickly_guest says to TommyBoy_guest, ""so... a chair"person" doesn't have the same power as a chair"man"? "
Joker_guest says, "Fireman....or to be pc...fireFIGHTER"
sandyet_guest has an uncle who is a fire*fighter* in NYC
editor_guest says, "assumption sometimes cause bad results by losing their validity"
Claud shifts in the chair uncomfortably, contemplating its gender
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "FIREFIGHTER is a male dominant word!"
editor_guest says, "Who do not use GFL they are after bad results"
buford_guest ASS+U+ME...add itup
Joker_guest says, "if you say Firewoman...you'd here about about worse than if you said fireman"
student_guest exclaims, "Ever seen some of those female American Gladiators? They'd kick all our butts. Men are always stronger, phooey!"
sandyet_guest asks Backdraft_guest, "why?"
<gun>_guest "it is obvious why people say fireman instead of fire person, historically males were the only firefighters"
Claud asks Backdraft_guest, "why?"
TommyBoy_guest chairperson is pretty new, chairmen and other historically tested wordshave some meaning to it
Claud says, "what matters is not what gender the person has--but what role the person fills."
Planet teleports in.
student_guest asks, "Firefighter is also more descriptive. Fireman could describe a man who lights fires, see?"
Claud asks, "why should their titles distinguish? what the hell diff does it make?"
Damon_guest says, "Because fireperson out"
FuNHoG_guest says, "you can't change history that's the way it was""
Starre_guest says, "*his*torically men have also really messed up the world"
<Max>_guest "I think I am going to the PUb and grab a few beer, then maybe shoot some pool"
Claud says to FuNHoG_guest, "oh, but you can change present, can't you? "
sandyet_guest says, "who's trying to change history? we're trying to change *future*"
Joker_guest says, "I am following max...This is a subject Ineed to be drunk for"
sandyet_guest exclaims to Claud, "jinx!"
FuNHoG_guest says, "I'm trying but so far it's not turning out so good!""
Planet waves to all.
Joker_guest teleports out.
Thu Jan 23 11:45:04 1997 PST
Starre_guest says to sandyet_guest, "which is why we should have lang. that is fair to ALL"
Claud laffs at sandyet
Backdraft_guest asks, "How can you change the future without recognizing the past?"
Animatronic_Hiro waves at Planet.
<gun>_guest says, ":for people who have nothing better to do with their time besides analize words"
<Max>_guest "I think we should all use gener fair language, but lets not make a big stink when we slip and use a work that we grew up saying, it will take time.....I think I'm drunk"
sickly_guest thinks about all the bad things from the past...
Claud welcomes planet to our GFL (Gender Fair Language) discussion
editor_guest says, "people are still trying to cahnge present but most of them are not succesful"
Chad_guest teleports out.
Planet smiles at Claud and bows, "thank you."
Saturn_Guest says, "I guess chairmen is ok because chairlady is used too""
Starre_guest says to Backdraft_guest, "are we not reconsing that past? Now we are saying may it was wrong to say those things, and we are hopefully *changing*"
batman_guest batman thanks Tommyboy
Claud asks <Max>_guest, "if we don't make a stink, how will we notice we slipped?"
Mick teleports out.
Mick teleports in.
TommyBoy_guest says, "Starre, if women were in power, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because technology is man driven baby"
<Max>_guest "what about the word 'guys'"
batman_guest says, "make up your mind mick"
<Max>_guest "lets not get too stinky here"
Claud wonders howso, tommyboy
Claud asks TommyBoy_guest, "do you know who BUILT this moo?"
sickly_guest shakes per head at tommyboy
bob_guest says, "to saturn " I actually find the term chairlady very offensive""
<gun>_guest "i was thinking the same thing batman"
Claud asks TommyBoy_guest, "do you assume that the wizards here are all male?"
sandyet_guest says to TommyBoy_guest, "you're contradicting your own point. all the more reason to have the language reflect neutrality"
Starre_guest says to TommyBoy_guest, "Really what about Madame Curie, Emily robling? "
buford_guest says, "we built this city on rock and roll..."
tracy_guest says, "Aside from whether GFL is right or wrong, businesspeople need to consider it. A recent mattress commercial noted: "You can adjust your side to hard, and your wife can adjust her side to soft." I wonder how many women will buy that mattress."
salman_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove salman_guest.
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "Now theres a catch, saying the word man and baby in the same sentance!"
sickly_guest thinks of all the great moos (and to-be-moos) built by women
Claud laffs at tracy's commercial
Mick wonders how the National Alliance for Computers and Writing, which is 61% female, would react to this sort of techno-male-driven assumption
********* Claud: slide 2 on Kairos-slider *********
Man Boy Guy Male Gentleman Fellow Dude Bubba Jock Stud Lad
Any difference in tone/connation between these terms and the others?
********* End *********
batman_guest says, "all women need to do is know how to cook and clean and pop out babies when men want them"
Phantom_guest says, " there is so much difference between those 2"
person_guest teleports in.
buford_guest thinks batman is DEAD
Saturn_Guest says, " you need to shut up batman""
Backdraft_guest says, "Just like Star Wars, you must have to good with the bad"
<Max>_guest "let me handle the fatman"
batman_guest says, "BATMAN lives"
buford_guest says, "HEEEERE WE GO..."
Claud watches in awe as batman drags a big club and grows hair all over his body on his way back to the cave
Chad_guest teleports in.
sandyet_guest bets batman is glad that no one on this moo hasto identify himself in real life
tracy_guest exclaims, "Let's go grab his batbelt and beat him with it!"
<gun>_guest "leave batman alone"
Starre_guest applauds Claud
batman_guest says, "thanks gun"
Saturn_Guest says, " I have seen lots of man rely on woman on everything""
<Max>_guest "I'm with ya tracy"
buford_guest believes batman rocks house for saying what he believes
person_guest thinks person has SON is it so does it mean I am a man?
Starre_guest says to batman_guest, "would you really want a wife who only did that? And would you only want to do that? "
Mick thinks it actually is wonderful that MOOspace allows people to say what they really think without fear of reprimand. It shows us what the GFL supporters are up against
TommyBoy_guest You only speak the truth Batman
tracy_guest asks, "Speaking of gender-neutral, how about that Boy Wonder?"
Planet reprimands Mick. Oh that was affective.
Claud agrees with mick
batman_guest believes buford is good people
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "GOGO gadjet FINGERS!"
Mick asks Planet, ""reprimands? why?"
Planet shrugs at Mick and says, "Cause I thought I would try it as soon as I saw you say it not possible."
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "Sorry, I can't spell either!"
batman_guest says, "what finger"
Mick is confused
batman_guest says, "mick you're a dork"
Starre_guest exclaims, "If it wasn't for the female gender there would be no *his*tory.. think who reproduce- technology certainly wouldn't exist!!"
sandyet_guest tells Mick, "surprise."
Planet grins at Mick.
Joker_guest teleports in.
Claud says to Mick, "planet saw you say no fear of reprimand"
FuNHoG_guest says, "no kiddin""
<Max>_guest screams and says, "beer"""
Claud says to Mick, "and immediately challenged that"
Mick iis a dork, yup. no problem with that. andm at least it's not a gendered term.
Claud asks Mick, "oh no?"
Backdraft_guest says, ""Planet is a teachers PET.....HAHAHAHA"
batman_guest says, "we are getting of the subject of gender fairness"
Planet laughs and says, "Welp. I guess it kinda proved his point. Cause he didn't fear my reprimand."
Claud asks, "what is the etym of dork?"
<Max>_guest "maybe we should all get naked and talk about gener fair language"
editor_guest asks, " What was the subject?"
Flax teleports in.
FuNHoG_guest says, "i wish i could type faster!""
Claud says to <Max>_guest, "you go first"
buford_guest begins to take clothes off...
batman_guest says, "what the hell is etym Claud"
<gun>_guest "that's our intention batman, maybe we can discuss something more humorous"
Mick says to Backdraft_guest, "don't assume everyone in here is ... in here. At least four of the discussants (including Planet, i think) aren't in New York right now."
Claud says to batman_guest, "etymology--the history of the word's origin"
Saturn_Guest says, " you wish Max""
Planet is definately NOT in NY
Flax wwaves to all
Joker_guest says, "We've gotten this far with this method of language...., right"
Planet asks, "How can a planet be contained in a small city?"
Claud waves hi to flax
batman_guest says, "well if thats what etym is Claud then you too are a dork"
sandyet_guest asks, "is getting this far a good thing?"
Starre_guest asks Joker_guest, "have we? think do we speak like Shakespear?"
Flax waves to claud
sandyet_guest nods vigorously at Claud's dorkhood
Claud wonders how asking about etymology makes me a dork
tracy_guest nods.
deadBaby_guest says, ""what happened to gender fair language???""
Chad_guest teleports out.
Planet thinks Claus is more like a geek than a dork.
buford_guest says, "COLLEGE KIDS worry about tests and lab reports...not GFL."
Joker_guest says, "hell ya...I have everything I need...I have affirmative action, feminism, all sorts of great things"
Backdraft_guest asks, "Gender WHO?"
<gun>_guest "congratulations to Mick's soon-to-be-wife"
Claud hits sandyet on the head with a dictionary
<Max>_guest "I think the reason for gender fair laguage is to make sure that women know that we, men, are poweful, and using this language never lets them forget it"
Animatronic_Hiro hits the lag on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper and exclaims, 'Bad lag, Bad!'
Starre_guest says to buford_guest, "I am a college student And I worry about GFL"
Flax asks, "gender fair language is interesting, have you discussed gender in your current medium?"
Planet thinks geek is pretty gender fair
buford_guest thinks that starre does not go to rpi
Mick says to Flax, "both f2f and innaMOO, yes"
Animatronic_Hiro reminds everyone that he is no ordinary bot. Why, he could make Star Trek's Data look like a mere toaster.
Thu Jan 23 11:55:05 1997 PST
deadBaby_guest says, "to starre "Do you really??? OH COME ON!""
<Max>_guest "lets go out and start wrestling gorillas"
batman_guest exclaims -to the BAT cave
FuNHoG_guest says, "starre definitely doesn't go to rpi""
Planet asks, "Well if GFL challenges the assumptions of a mostly male population...what's the prob...?"
Starre_guest says, " Yes I do"
Claud advises testosterone therapy for batman (reduction, that is)
Chad_guest teleports in.
Mick asks, "why do you think starre doesn't go to RPI? I dunno ... figure at least 19 people in here do. Odds are ... but where's your assumption coming from?"
Joker_guest says, "Starre, Men rule the campus at RPI, but women are really bitchy..."
Mick wonders if Joker would say that to Starre to her face
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "I think BATBOY is really a girl!"
Flax says to Mick, "in my last formal class that dealt with such issues we had a lot of discussion about how fair it was to misrepresent ourselves on moos . . ."
Claud says to Joker_guest, "what's the MALE exquivalent for "bitchy"--you know when men act badly"
Planet lifts eir right brow at Joker_guest and ask, "Oh now that isn't gender specific?"
robin_guest says, "They can afford to be bitchy...the men drool over them."
TommyBoy_guest advises Claud to take testosterone therapy (increase that is)
Joker_guest asks, "RPI gives them the inch, they think they rule the world, can anyone disagree...huh?"
FuNHoG_guest says, "it's that high tech crap messing with their and everyone elses minds""
Animatronic_Hiro goes home.
Flax apologizes she's forgotten the time and muwst go It's ben fun
Starre_guest says to Joker_guest, "men are also really bitchy here also.. "Hey I can't get no sex" try gender fait Lang. it works"
Flax has disconnected.
sickly_guest wishes the guys at rpi could go to per school; the women have total control
buford_guest stands up and applauds JOKER
Claud decides that tommyboy's surplus oughta feed the whole class
Joker_guest says, "Starre, just the geeks...The rest of us have no time for bitching"
deadBaby_guest jumps.
Planet laughs at Joker_guest and asks, "And all men want that extra inch?!?"
Backdraft_guest asks, "OK then, whats a good gender fair pickup line?"
Joker_guest says, "what's a human like you doing in a place like this"
deadBaby_guest kicks Planet.
buford_guest says, "hey baby, let's do it."
<Max>_guest "do you like apples? Me too"
FuNHoG_guest says, "hey you wanna come home with me""
Starre_guest says to Backdraft_guest, "how bout something like "Nice shirt it would look good crumpled at the foot of my bed ;)"
A satellite from the 'Keep space clean' department picks up Flax to get her back to the right orbit.
Claud laffs out loud at planet and that extra inch!
buford_guest asks, "nice shoes...wanna ****?"
Planet prefers...what's a kewl geek like you doing in a lame place like this?
editor_guest says, " how many female are there in the session now ? My guess four or five Ithink thats enough reason to use GFL"
Joker_guest says, "I bet 1 or 2"
Claud asks Backdraft_guest, "i'm interested in your IDEAS???? in your MIND???"
Starre_guest likes Planet's
Mick asks, "if you have to *guess* at the number that says something right there, huh?"
<Max>_guest "you just said feMALE editor"
Claud says to editor_guest, "name them"
editor_guest says, " Iam sure there are at least three"
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "You don't wanta see whats in MY mind!"
Joker_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Joker_guest.
editor_guest says, " ! is claud""
Planet nods vigorously in agreement with Mick's ideas and say, "Yeppers. Excellent [point."
Phantom_guest asks editor_guest, "really who??"
<Max>_guest "open your mind Backdraft, no one knows who you are"
sandyet_guest sashays up to Editor_Guest and wonders "is one of them me, sweetie?
Claud asks editor_guest, "gee, if that's true, maybe i really SHOULD get that testosterone therapy from batman, eh?"
editor_guest says, " I think I a can name "
Phantom_guest starts humming free your mind
Planet chuckles at sandyet_guest.
Barbie_guest teleports in.
sickly_guest blinks at sandyet
batman_guest returns from the bat cave
deadBaby_guest goes up.
buford_guest asks, "ok, we got barbie...where in the hell is KEN?"
deadBaby_guest has arrived.
Planet laughs out loud at deadBaby_guest.
Barbie_guest says, "typical of guys"
editor_guest asks, " anywat. Does it matter who is female who is not?"
Planet can be Ken.
Phantom_guest clads at editor's comment
Planet can be Kennette
sandyet_guest applauds editor! Precisdly! Doesn't matter, therefore we shoudl use gender-free language!
Ken waves to buford
Planet can be Barbie...or Barbarosa with a red beard.
buford_guest waves back at ken...checks ken for authenticity
TommyBoy_guest says, "All GFL is an attempt to be nice without any genuity...if you have to think about how to address people, it's not genuine, very fake and shallow."
Ken looks around searchingly for barbie--warns buford that mattel never filled in *that* detail
<Max>_guest "I agree with tommyboy"
Mick recalls in the f2f conversation that the other major opinion was "Using GFL is such A PAIN!" Is that a reasonable assertion?
<gun>_guest "screw GFL, let's talk NFL"
Barbie_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Barbie_guest.
Phantom_guest [to all_but TommyBoy_guest]: isn't it better to be fake and shallow then to insult/
buford_guest says, "hells yeah, mick"
Ken runs out after barbie
batman_guest says, "I agree with you Tommy boy "
Planet asks TommyBoy_guest, ""One always should think about audience. Would you talk to your lover the way you talk to your parents ot teachers?"
Raistlin_guest says, "being shallow and fake is an insult"
KKK_guest exclaims, "Yeah, TommyBoy, you nigger! Oops! That slipped out, but I'd rather be genuine than shallow!"
Backdraft_guest exclaims, "Planet definately has a good point!"
buford_guest asks, "whoa! where did hat one come from?"
TommyBoy_guest says, "It is a pain, because you feel uncomfortable with your actions..speaking, writing, through different communication pathways"
batman_guest says, "I talk to Tommy boys lover that way"
Claud says to Raistlin_guest, "that's why STEP TWO is changing your MOND"
FuNHoG_guest says, "is it I'd rather know that someone didn't like me than screw around with being nice to me because they think they should"
Claud says, "MIND, that is"
<gun>_guest "kick KKK dude out of here, you racist bastard"
Chad_guest teleports out.
Planet asks, "Hey lover. Could I revise that last grade?"
Mick says, "racism is bad but sexism is okay? Hummm."
editor_guest says, " i think people shold be natural. If the are gender fair in their life the"
Planet says, "Hemlock is natural. Lets all drink some. Ya."
Claud says to TommyBoy_guest, "work at feeling COMFORTABLE with the CONCEPT of EQUALITY--then the language feels comfortable too."
<Max>_guest "lets not do anything to upset someone"
Starre_guest nodes to claud
Planet upsets Max_guest. THAT'
Claud says, "some of us aren't even aware that we are insulting or degrading people with our language"
Backdraft_guest asks, "Can someone be perceived as TOO gender fair?"
Planet says, "where the talking starts."
Phantom_guest says, "its sad that general lang. is such that it insults a sex"
Chad_guest teleports in.
<gun>_guest " i take it mick would rather live on a plantation than feel discriminated against in the way people communicate"
Punisher_guest "Now lets get nasty"
Claud says, "becoming aware is UNCOMFORTABLE, and it should be. Then we can CHANGE it."
Chad_guest goes down.
Planet nods to Backdraft_guest and asks, "Sure. Can't people be TOO darn polite?"
Claud bows politely to backdraft
Mick has no clue what <gun> is talking about ...?
Chad_guest has arrived.
Thu Jan 23 12:05:05 1997 PST
Chad_guest goes up.
Starre_guest says, "People can be to anything, but that shouldn't stop one from trying"
Backdraft_guest says, "Thank you" to Claud"
Punisher_guest "Don't worry mick the Punisher will wreck haavock"
Planet says to Mick, "Methinks gun feels you are trying to corneer the market on language by prescribing language use."
Claud says, "you're welcome, backdraft"
Chad_guest has arrived.
<gun>_guest " you make a comment Mick that racism is bad but sexism is good, what did that mean?"
Planet thoought that Claud and all were suggesting an examination of GFL language rather than prescribing
Claud guesses at the identity of sandyet's puppet-master
Starre_guest says, "The idea of gender fair lang. is quite old"
Mick says to Planet, "interesting hypothesis. GFL is prescriptive? that's an idea I hadn't considered ..."
Punisher_guest "what do you think <gun>"
Backdraft_guest says, "I do think that we should all be more interested in the overall point than whether they are speaking to a specific gender"
FuNHoG_guest says, " I think there are a lot more pressing issues than GFL to worry about in our society"
<gun>_guest "maybe i misintrepreted you Mick, sorry"
TommyBoy_guest says, "Exactly FunHog"
Mick says to <gun>_guest, "someone said we should throw KKK-guest out because he (she?) was a racist. I thought that was ironic given the topic and how no one in here seems to care if the language is sexist."
batman_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove batman_guest.
Starre_guest says, "there are planty of things to worry about yes, but so? We still give money to NAsa even though there are starving people"
Punisher_guest "No matter who you are talking to you should use GFL"
deadBaby_guest says, ""I think everyone is really missing the point of gfl. I mean does anyone honestly think women are not as important than men "
Claud asks FuNHoG_guest, "but are some of them related to GFL? Does the "glass ceiling" have anything to do with GFL?"
catwoman_guest teleports in.
Punisher_guest "Not even the Punisher thinks that men are more important"
Starre_guest asks Claud, "I believe it does in a way? How can i ever become a Chairman?"
FuNHoG_guest says, "It's as if we realize that some of those are much more complex"
Mick says to deadBaby_guest, "oh, yes. absolutely. you haven't run into that attitude? I mean, 93% of our congress is male."
Claud says to deadBaby_guest, " i think batman may be your culprit, there."
Starre_guest says to Mick, "and they are congressMEN"
Planet nods to <gun>_guest and says, "It's easy to misinterpret in here...and that's where some really good button pushing takes place. Stirs things up and people say things they never might have even thought of before."
Saturn_Guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Saturn_Guest.
pretzel_boy_guest teleports in.
TommyBoy_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove TommyBoy_guest.
sandyet_guest fusses at Starre. There's another term ... is Donna Owens (I'm from Ohio) my congressman?
Claud says to sandyet_guest, "your representative"
Costanza_guest teleports in.
robin_guest asks, "Ever call a mixed-sex group of people 'guys'? Were the females offended?"
buford_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove buford_guest.
Punisher_guest "fenmales were never offended by that in my experience"
catwoman_guest says, " I think they do""
sandyet_guest asks robin_guest, "ever called amixed-group of people "gals"? would the *men* be offended?"
Raistlin_guest says, "calling everyone in a group "guys" never offending any of my friends, female or not"
Punisher_guest "yes men would"
Planet reconnects.
Starre_guest says to robin_guest, "Mick has and yes they were ;)"
sickly_guest says "you guys" a lot, also says "y'all"
robin_guest asks, "But doesn't 'guys' mean 'men'?"
Mick laffs at Starre. Consider me reprimanded
Planet laughs at Mick and exclaims, "No fear tho!"
Claud asks sickly_guest, "what's wrong with you folks? or you people? or just "you" ???"
deadBaby_guest vomits.
catwoman_guest says, " guys < --- doesn't offend women of course""
pretzel_boy_guest logs on
Starre_guest asks Claud, "scary isn't it?"
Punisher_guest "The only time they became offended was when I realized I made a mistake and corrected myself, then are the same way because I've heard girls call themselves guys"
Gloria_Steinem_guest teleports in.
Planet had a fave amths teacher who always said...People!!!
deadBaby_guest vomits at catwoman_guest.
Planet grins at Gloria_Steinem_guest and says, "Heya"
Claud welcomes gloria to this discussion. 'sbout time
Backdraft_guest asks, "Thats definately the point, How do you know when someone will de offended?"
Gloria_Steinem_guest exclaims, "i was wrong...maybe GFL is NOT for everyone!"
Planet grins at Gloria_Steinem_guest.
Planet asks, "like bunny tails?"
editor_guest learned how to smile and laugh.
Planet hi5's editor_guest.
robin_guest smiles at Gloria_Steinem_guest.
Punisher_guest says, "yeh""
Costanza_guest says, "I don't believe that everybody practices GFL all the time, people slip up, make mistakes. It's not a big deal. "
ByronPipes_guest teleports in.
deadBaby_guest says, "to backdraft " "
ByronPipes_guest says, "You're all expelled."
Punisher_guest says, "Byron, when are we getting new computers in this lab""
Planet yeehaws. Cool. School is out then?
Mick says to Claud, "and other non-RPI Byron Pipes is the president of RPI"
FuNHoG_guest says, "I think we should be putting our time and energy into something more important like crime or hunger rather than waxing intellectual"
Claud says to Costanza_guest, "the point is to focus on the THINKING, the PERCEPTION of genders. then you won't "slip up" if you think in equal terms, you talk in them, too."
Starre_guest says, "just being aware of GFL and trying to use it is a start, maybe our kids will do better..."
pretzel_boy_guest has a strong resemblance to Costanza
Planet grins at ByronPipes_guest and says, "Heya"
Punisher_guest "I agree Starre"
Gloria_Steinem_guest says, "GFL should only be mandatory in tec/pro communication...stuff that crosses borders and is quite influential in today's world. that is why i say GFL might not be for everyone."
deadBaby_guest says, "to everyone"
Starre_guest asks FuNHoG_guest, "so are you putting you mind to crime and such? After all you are just a college student? Do you really care????"
deadBaby_guest asks, "who is actually offended by non_GFL???"
Planet asks Gloria_Steinem_guest, "So not everyone should examine their language use?"
sandyet_guest says, "So what DOESN'T cross borders? I guess Engineering doesn't ... i mean, obviously that doesn't affect the rest of the world."
Thu Jan 23 12:15:06 1997 PST
Starre_guest raise her hand
glamourgirl_guest "GFL is for me"
Backdraft_guest asks, "I think we should care, DO you honestly think we will change once we get to a working position?"
Costanza_guest says, "That's true Claud, and it's very nice to live in a perfect glass world too, but it's futile to reprimand someone who is taught all their lives, and exposed to bias. "
FuNHoG_guest says, "I do I'd have to say I'd rather be doing something more worthwhile""
Planet asks Gloria_Steinem_guest, "And the raminfiocations and the responsibilty of word choices?"
Planet needs a typing lesson.
pretzel_boy_guest says, "GFL is important in the workplace. If a woman gets a high ranking position she deserves respect"
MysteryGuest announces that I teach at a major university and I program computers--what's my gender?
Gloria_Steinem_guest says, "PLANET, i think everyone should look at their own situation, and do what is RIGHT FOR THEMSELVES...NOT RIGHT FOR OTHERS."
Planet grins at MysteryGuest.
Starre_guest says to Backdraft_guest, "I think we can and it will be fun to say "I was part of that""
glamourgirl_guest "mystery guest must be a woman or it wouldn't make sense"
person_guest to pretzelboy ... she desrves respect whether or not she is in a high position
Planet says to Gloria_Steinem_guest, "But we are inextricabley bound to one another in multifaceted comminites which overlap"
Costanza_guest says, "who cares Mystery Guest, the focus is not on genders, but that you are at that high position"
<gun>_guest "what happened to batman, he was kind of funny"
sandyet_guest teaches at a major university and programs computers, too -- what's *my* gender?
Backdraft_guest asks, "WHats the point of trying when we all know that the issue can not be resolved?"
MysteryGuest nods to costanza
glamourgirl_guest "I just got back from Batman's room, he is sleeping now"
pretzel_boy_guest eats a pretzel
deadBaby_guest sleeps.
<gun>_guest "well wake him up god dam it!"
Gloria_Steinem_guest says, "PLANET, that might be the case, but we should never force people to do one thing or another. that goes against the ideas of a free democracy."
Planet says to Backdraft_guest, "Perhaps the answer lies in NOT closing off the issue at all."
Planet says to Backdraft_guest, "NOT resolving it"
Backdraft_guest says, "Did he let you ride in the BatMobile?" to glamourgirl_guest"
Mick thinks we are about to wrap up MOO and bring it back to the RL classroom ... Claud, you have any closing thoughts?
Planet hmms at Gloria_Steinem_guest.
deadBaby_guest says, "say "
catwoman_guest says, " I think women deserves the respect as they need to work harder to struggle more than men does to get to a high position"
robin_guest says, "By the way, gender has more to do with the traits typically associated with a sex, not the actual biological equipment"
sickly_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove sickly_guest.
Claudine says, "no, mick, i think we covered it"
Planet asks Gloria_Steinem_guest, "Not force in what sense?"
Gloria_Steinem_guest wonders wht planet is thinking
pretzel_boy_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove pretzel_boy_guest.
FuNHoG_guest says, "bye"
Mick says, "Attention to everyone in the RPI f2f classroom --"
Planet says, "We are forced or coerced in many ways"
Claudine waves bye to all the rpi-ers as they exit
FuNHoG_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove FuNHoG_guest.
Planet says, "That's part of living with other humans"
MAX_guest "Alright we can finally get some beer"
Mick asks, "In order to leave here, you need to type @quit ...okay?"
Gloria_Steinem_guest says, "got to go...sorry planet"
Starre_guest bye Claud
Gloria_Steinem_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Gloria_Steinem_guest.
Mick exclaims, "thanks for helping out claud!"
Planet . o O ( where's the beeer? )
Backdraft_guest says, "waive"to everyone""
Batman_guest teleports in.
<gun>_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove <gun>_guest.
Costanza_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Costanza_guest.
Claudine exclaims, "bye starre. it was great to see you again!"
MAX_guest "In the Pub"
editor_guest doesn't want to quit
catwoman_guest says, "bye""
Batman_guest has returned
Starre_guest says, "Calud it was great to see you again..."
Backdraft_guest has disconnected.
The housekeeper arrives to remove Backdraft_guest.
Raistlin_guest says, "later y'all"
MAX_guest "The Bat is back, how was it"
deadBaby_guest says, "later bitches"
Batman_guest says, "fantastic"
+--------------------------------------------+
Planet holds up a big sign: | GREAT session ...as usual |
+--------------------------------------------+
Mick is going to disconnect now ...
Mick exclaims, "everyone else, too!"
editor_guest asks, " GFL?"
Mick has disconnected.